Comments on Radikal Noise: WE Arena Specs

In my opinion you are not right. Let's discuss it....

2010-03-02T06:00:34.003-05:00

In my opinion you are not right. Let's discuss it. Write to me in PM, we will talk. ciallis purchase drug I have a good fresh joke for you! Why do bagpipers walk when they play? They're trying to get away from the noise.

^ above comment posted by Vontre

2007-07-20T17:18:00.000-05:00

^ above comment posted by Vontre

I didn't know there was a mage site. Sweet, good w...

2007-07-20T17:17:00.000-05:00

I didn't know there was a mage site. Sweet, good work Raddy.

I'll still be taking Ice Floes for the reduction to ice barrier and cone of cold. In particular ice barrier, as it can be crucial for pulling off a clean, uninterrupted cast if you have someone forcing pushback procs;say a pet, or ranged attacker, what have you. Perhaps the biggest personal reason though, is that my 'sixth-sense' that tells me when timers are up is finely tuned to 24 seconds on ice barrier. =p

Spell steal freedom gone :0) back to kiting pwnage...

2007-07-20T08:26:00.000-05:00

Spell steal freedom gone :0) back to kiting pwnage.

Frostbite does bugger all against a warrior with f...

2007-07-19T17:09:00.000-05:00

Frostbite does bugger all against a warrior with freedom, and you should be able to pull a snare out of your ass if he doesn't have the freedom, the extra crit is nice too.

MA vs IAFrostbite > impact, impact is just a minor...

2007-07-19T15:56:00.000-05:00

MA vs IA

Frostbite > impact, impact is just a minor stun while frostbite means dmg :p

-5% getting crit > 4% physical dmg reduce

IA: Atk speed slow is pretty decent

IA: Snare useless for me i got CoC /w permafrost instead

MA: 3% spellcrit, pretty good

Conclusion...It's a hard choice really, i still can't decide what to use :p. Only reason i'd use IA is to get a frostbite proc so i can burst melee's down faster. MA -5% crit is very sexy tho and can be life saving. One thing is for sure IA is useless vs casters.

Ps. I'm leaning towards MA ^^

Another decent build is to roll 1/0/60. I agree th...

2007-07-19T12:38:00.000-05:00

Another decent build is to roll 1/0/60. I agree that Floes is more of a dueling talent which means that it's more usefull in 2v2 / 3v3's so this build is perhaps a bit more well rounded for all the arenas.

You lose Imp CS (17/0/44 build comparison here), gain 8% mana, + 3 hit, WChill goes up 20% faster, 5% extra FB crit, and more FB damage. It depends on your team mates / playstyle but I like this build more that the 17/44 build after playing with it a while (1 pt. in arcane for +2% hit on ur polly's).

Molten Armor is a great spell for offense and defe...

2007-07-19T09:07:00.000-05:00

Molten Armor is a great spell for offense and defense. It stacks well with 0/5/56 cause you can have -5% hit and -5% crit with 10% chance to stun on crit.

But honestly Molten Armor shines most with ignite. Cause MA can crit and burn it increases your chances for stuns.

Going 0/5/56 Your depending on the hits to do the stuns and if you have someone hitting you that much most of the time your going to die. Especially if its a 2 hander warrior with a merciless or = too weapon.

I guess I would say that molten would shine the best if you put at some points in ignite to max out its full potential. If you do that by all means go Molten Armor.

But the same can be said with frostbit/permafrost/precision/shatter/and improved Frost Armor. Each thing helps the other become stronger and creates great opportunities for combos or crowd control. We can have multiple frostbites in a fight against melee and casters with spells or with them attacking close range. And 1 frostbite = 2k damage ice lance 1800 fireblast combo or worse depending on situations. I personally feel that Ice armor gives better opportunity to win with heavy frost mage specs.

Also the reason I put 5 in winterchills is if I put any more then 1 point in improved blizzard it overwrites frostbolt snares and at max even cone of cold snares which your exchanging 12 secs for 4.5 secs. That is the reason i went 5/5 winterchill instead of 4/5 only putting one point in imp blizzard for 50% snare 4.5s.

Frost channeling by far for a frost mage is better. Bolts/nova/shields/coc/lances/iceblocks/blizzards ect. When you take account of how much it saves per each spell and caculate how much your full lets say 9k mana.

If you did nothing but cast ice lance for 9k worth of mana. The regular cost of ice lance is

150 mana per cast

127 with FC

9k 60 ice lances

9k 71 ice lances FC

So just basing it off one spell that is how many attacks you will have above another mage without it kiting and spamming.

I can't count how many times it came down to the wire and my opponent was frostbiten and I was out of mana but regen just enough to finish a 2k hit off because of FC. Clearcasting using the big spells = having to stay stationary. Arcane Missles/Blizzard/pyroblast all take time to do damage and if your always on the move or mobel from attackers you wont be able to capitalize on that potential damage when the clearcasting goes off. Its just too random for me and no fight is ever the same when both players are skilled.

Also FC makes improved COC a normal spell that isn't so costly and does great damage up close protecting us from all melee attacks with easy kiting. Most people dont use coc cause of the cost of mana vs damage and with talent points in the right place you can eliminate that worry and dominate freely with the spell.

Now on another note imp CS is a great spell that can set up nice combos like frost nova silence frostbolt ice lance fireblast that will kill most people at 75% health. But in arena how often do you get that chance to sit and launch that combo. Imp CS can stop instant cast for 4 secs but occasionally you'll get the run around the pillar or back up healer keeping that individual up long enough for it to wear off if you blow it on a not casting individual.

So I guess it comes back to the saying if I dont need imp CS and use frost channeling over clearcasting and dont need AM unless i get countered then why waiste 17 points in Arcane tree when you can make your frost talents that much stronger?

Imp CS is a great attribute but is it a dire need no so test out other things without it im sure you those who were wondering wont miss it much.

In conclussion it seems:

17/0/44 - 0/5/56 - 0/0/61

all have great things to offer based on style and defense. Choose whatever fits your style the best and share with us your experiences.

Gah i can't decide if i should go 17/0/44 or 0/5/5...

2007-07-19T05:09:00.000-05:00

Gah i can't decide if i should go 17/0/44 or 0/5/56 or 61 full frost :p

CS is mostly used to stop heals, so lets take a look at classes you can CS.

Druid: CS their direct heal and they can only shapeshift or use balance if moonkin. imp CS can be useful to stop them using HoTs

Mage: Congrats if you CS their main school :p. They can still poly or use fire (if you CSed frost)

Paladin: CS their heal and they cant do anything but melee. imp CS is a waste.

Priest: If holy can't do much except AoE fear and mana burn. If shadow can't do shit. Dunno if you can shift out of shadowform while CSed?

Shaman: CS their heal and they can still use some shocks, totems and melee

Warlocks: CS their shadow school and they can only use fire which isn't a big deal unless they are Destro :p (not many of those ^^)

All these examples are without imp CS.

Of course you can use imp CS just for the 4s silence but that kinda is a waste imo. CS should be used on a casting target first and foremost.

Someone please help me decide, is the 4s sec silence that useful spending 17 points on it? give examples of why :p

Ps. Clearcast vs Frost channeling: 1 out of 10 casts to get a next manafree spell or 15% manareduce on all frost spells...If i could only choose one it would be the later. Clearcast ain't bad tho :)

Max rank CoC is still viable without the talents i...

2007-07-18T23:13:00.000-05:00

Max rank CoC is still viable without the talents in certain situations, i.e. frost nova on double warriors with the chance to shatter crit both of them.

I keep them both rank 1 and max rank hotkeyed.

*Considering how resilience has been broken agains...

2007-07-18T21:45:00.000-05:00

*Considering how resilience has been broken against mages for so long, the extra crit % was really not the damage boost you'd generally expect.

The crit reduction and extra crit % are both fantastic and underrated; we should still whine about getting a second rank on the forums though. Level 62, wtf?! *

How is imp frostbolt crit overrated, and motlen armor crit increase underrated?

I know MA is for all spells, but still...

Great stuff Raddy, I love reading your posts. They...

2007-07-18T21:27:00.000-05:00

Great stuff Raddy, I love reading your posts. They're very insightful :D

I've been 17/0/44 cookie cutter since forever but lately I've been thinking about going 0/0/61 and giving it a try. It'd be nice if you could discuss it a lil bit cause that would be very helpful. Sometimes we don't see things when we look and need others to help point them out ;)

There's some fierce discussion here. ^^I can't rea...

2007-07-18T19:22:00.000-05:00

There's some fierce discussion here. ^^

I can't really immediately talk about everything said, but I'll respond to 10 things real quick:

1) Dispel is random afaik.
2) Example build links I'll post when I get a chance
3) For filler arcane, I always go with 5/5 Imp Missiles, 5/5 Clearcasting, 5/5 Magic Absorption.
4) 3/5 WC is okay, but try 4/5 imo, I think you'll like it better. I can't think of too many specs where I'd want something more than that 4th point in WC.
5) When I say "wash" -- I mean that Clearcasting, Master of Elements, and Frost Channeling, are not really that different in how much extra mana they'll provide you. Having one of the three should leave you with plenty of mana on most teams if you stick to rank 1 poly and mana gem early.
6) 61 frost is a fine spec, I actually just forgot to talk about it. It is pretty popular, maybe I'll come back to discuss it. ^^
7) I consider "extra frostbolt damage" to be not worth it because the other talents provide greater benefit. =p Considering how resilience has been broken against mages for so long, the extra crit % was really not the damage boost you'd generally expect.
8) While clearcasting can sometimes proc in situations where you're going to rank 1 poly or nova anyways, often you can use those procs for very expensive spells such as arcane missiles to catch some running behind pillars or more commonly, a max rank CoC. I think on average you're definitely getting better than a base 10% from Clearcasting especially if you find yourself often able to change your next cast to take advantage of the proc. (even a fireblast isn't bad) Frost channeling isn't helping expensive stuff like missiles or fireblast which do get a lot of use; I'm not saying one is better than the other, just that it's hard to say "Frost channeling is strictly better for a frost mage"
9) Lightning capacitor and pvp trinket
10) I obviously spec Imp CS because I do think I can't live without the silence heh ^^ But I do whine a lot about not having impact.

oh bonus
11) I run with Molten armor always in 5s, and almost always in 2s and 3s. Its generally not that big an issue to switch to frost armor when you think you're going against a melee heavy team, and you'd only want to do this if you think they'll be focusing you. (which some teams definitely will in 3s) You don't need impact for MA to be good -- it just makes MA great. ^^ The crit reduction and extra crit % are both fantastic and underrated; we should still whine about getting a second rank on the forums though. Level 62, wtf?!

Double the resist check for double pleasure.

2007-07-18T18:32:00.000-05:00

Double the resist check for double pleasure.

I really think what it comes down to is on questio...

2007-07-18T16:34:00.000-05:00

I really think what it comes down to is on question, and one question only... the rest is just "details", so to speak.

The question is, "Will a 4 second silence win me games?"

If yes, then 17/44 is really the only (frost) spec imho.

To anonymous,Yeah your right about the - 5% crit w...

2007-07-18T16:17:00.000-05:00

To anonymous,

Yeah your right about the - 5% crit which is also a great buff. But it is also a buff that doesn't require 5 talent points to take advantage of. Im a huge fan of Molten armor, but not enough to blow the 5 talent points in it for impact.

One can easily say well one class can do this against frost armor and it becomes worthless for 3-5 secs. The same can be said about a orc warrior with improve stun resist and stun resist meta gem all over a mage with molten armor/impact.

I have gone 0/5/56 a few times and enjoyed the pleasures of molten armor with ice shield ect. Overall in my experience the that love most mages have for Molten Armor that are deep frost will get those benefits without blowing 5 points in impact.

But i guess it just comes down to playing style. Some mages don't even use cone of cold. Some dont even touch Blizzard after hitting 70. If certain individuals are that kind of mage then you should have close to 10 free points to spend it on what you like without targeting those talents. If that was your case then going impact would be a great move. It's definately better then going arcane missles.

Super heavy 61 frost is geared for those mages that can utilize every frost spell and the utilities that are provided for them.

The other person asking about trinket combos. If you can get your hand on lighting capacitor the electrical charges great. Works really well with shatter and all the nova's we have use that and resilience pvp trinket.

If you want to see an example check out FAXMONKEY WTFrost Vol.1 NEW PVP VIDEO.

@ www.warcraftmovies.com it shows how deadly a frost mage can really be. I recommend it to any frost mage. Oh and he has 1280 spell damage gear imo.

Darkflame

^ forgot to mention I'm 10 0 51

2007-07-18T15:35:00.000-05:00

^ forgot to mention I'm 10 0 51

Quick trinket question. For PVP what combo?Lightn...

2007-07-18T15:30:00.001-05:00

Quick trinket question. For PVP what combo?

Lightning capacitor
Quag's eye
Heroic 41 badge trinket
nexus horn
Resil Medallion

I realize some of these will change depending on bgs vs 2v2 - 5v5 just curious what you guys think. Thanks.

Oh and I thought of another general point about Ra...

2007-07-18T15:30:00.000-05:00

Oh and I thought of another general point about Raddy's article. IMHO clearcasting is not a "wash" when compared with Channeling. Lots of stuff could happen to make you "waste" you 10% proc of clearcasting, such as it proccing a split second before you frost nova, causing you to lose it on a Rank 1 spell. Also, channeling is a base 15%, not 10%. I would say, unless you are very, very careful to get the most from clearcasting (ie use it on fireblast, etc.), then channeling probably wins in the long haul.

@ DarkflameYou forgot the key component of Molten ...

2007-07-18T15:25:00.000-05:00

@ Darkflame

You forgot the key component of Molten Armor.

It could also read, "For each talent point, grants the mage 40 resilience."

Now is it sounding any better? :)

-5% crit is literally 200 resilience for free. Who wouldn't want that, unless you're Raddy and nobody ever attacks you unless your team already lost.

Which debuff gets dispelled is random, of course. ...

2007-07-18T14:53:00.000-05:00

Which debuff gets dispelled is random, of course. Ice armor only procs frostbite when the snare is applied (I'm not sure how often that is, I'm suing molten+impact).

Ok lets talk about this for a second. The cost of...

2007-07-18T14:00:00.000-05:00

Ok lets talk about this for a second. The cost of talent points and the beneficial effect of each.

Frost Armor

Talent increase 2 points
Frost resistance
Increased Armor
Improved Frost Ward (Spell Reflect)
Decrease melee attack speed 25%
Snare 50% on melee contact 8 secs with improved permafrost.
Frostbite 15% each time hit and additional duration of time per hit. Overall crit on frostbite targets average 65-75% or higher with winterchill and 5% crit frost talent and base 10% crit at level 70 = 2k icelance while kiting/sheep/ or a free getaway.

vs

Molten Armor

Talent increase 5 points (Impact)
Increase overal crit 3%
Damage melee attackers on hit
Chance of stun 10% on contact(deminishing returns faster then that of frostbite)

You can clearly see if going heavy frost that frost amor even if fighting a pure caster is more beneficial for the cost of talents overall.

You can take those additional 3 points and max out your cone of cold or channeling or something else just more useful in the frost tree.

Sure molten can stun rogues in cos but I haven't fought a rogue yet that I couldn't trap in a frostbite or nova with all the frost tools we have. Which when it does gg mage wins.

This is why I feel going impact is as beneficial as improved frost armor/ward.

If your looking for crit molten gives that regardless if you can stand and pluck away. But 5/5 winterchill will give you 10% crit or 5% crit increase with all frost spell talent makes up for it.

Darkflame

Well there's no point in speccing full frost over ...

2007-07-18T13:36:00.000-05:00

Well there's no point in speccing full frost over impact and rest in frost imo.

gotcha. yeah if its a single target the only thin...

2007-07-18T13:26:00.000-05:00

gotcha. yeah if its a single target the only thing preventing a sheep is detect magic.

He confused me as well on that comment. I guess I was stating more so on how strong 61 frost spec was and should be added to the great builds as WE spec.

Darkflame

Darkflame that's what I said, it protects snares a...

2007-07-18T13:15:00.000-05:00

Darkflame that's what I said, it protects snares and frost novas but doesn't protect sheeps, thus I don't understand how Raddy makes a pala cleanse frostbolt snare on a sheeped target before the sheep gets cleansed.